Watch Bill Gates talk (squirm?) about Jeffrey Epstein. Oh body language!

On Tuesday night’s PBS NewsHour, Judy Woodruff asked Bill Gates about the many dinners he had with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

Gates’s verbal response was an understandable one: “I regret doing that.”

His body language, however, was less convincing.

What Bill Gates’s body language means

In the video below, watch Gates stroke his ring finger and repeat himself. Note that his gaze then becomes unfocused, and perhaps most importantly, he laughs when he says of Epstein, “He had relationships with people he said would give to global health. Not nearly enough philanthropy goes in that direction.”

Gates has never been the most eloquent speaker, but his behavior during this televised interview —even if overblown, is consistent with a person who is not being totally forthcoming.

In kinesics, the study and interpretation of nonverbal communication, self-stroking is recognized as a display of anxiety, an effort of reassurance, or a combination of both.

Repetition and an unsteady gaze are more closely associated with nervousness, while laughing at inappropriate times can be linked to a phenomenon called duper’s delight. This describes the involuntary manifestation of joy that a liar experiences when their lie isn’t met with confrontation. They feel as though they just got away with something.

Humans aren’t machines, which means it isn’t always possible to derive meaning from their actions. Unfortunately for Gates, it’s a lot of fun to try.

What Gates’ body language tells us about his relationship with Epstein

Billionaire pedophile Epstein and tech pioneer Gates are said to be linked by a single ambition. An ex-staffer of Gates once said that the Nobel Peace Prize “is what Bill wants more than anything else in the world.” Gates reportedly believed that Epstein could help him achieve this. Like many others apparently did, he may have turned a blind eye to the charges and rumors surrounding Epstein in light of his power and influence.

When Gates laughs while citing Epstein’s shared interest in philanthropy as a justification for their numerous correspondences, it feels like he is almost acknowledging the irony.

Or maybe it was duper’s delight. If Gates did in fact bite his tongue when it came to Epstein’s illegal activity in order to secure a Nobel, the business about their shared interest in philanthropy is closer to a lie than a compromise.

In either case, Gates continues to exhibit nervous nonverbal communication at the mention of Epstein. This is by no means an unfamiliar reaction.

Prince Andrew inspired more memes than Keyboard Cat (rest in power) when Emily Maitlis grilled him on his friendship with Epstein, a relationship that continued years after Epstein’s 2008 criminal plea agreement. In the clip, Andrew becomes agitated. He stutters, repeats himself on several occasions, and he laughs at erratic intervals.

In the Gates interview, when Woodruff continues to press the billionaire, he becomes increasingly irritated. “I already said I regret those dinners,” he says.

It’s abundantly clear that Gates and Prince Andrew have no interest in discussing Epstein. Is it because they’re ashamed that they accepted the company of a sex predator for personal gain? Yeah, that’s abundantly clear, too.

Was Epstein behind Bill and Melinda’s divorce?

Bill and Melinda Gates’ divorce proceedings got ugly pretty quick. Even amid accusations of infidelity and workplace misconduct, many were shocked to learn about an alleged professional relationship between Bill Gates and convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

According to The New York Times, Melinda voiced concerns about her husband’s ties to Epstein on more than one occasion. A story in People magazine went so far as to suggest that Bill Gates’ and Jeffrey’s friendship was one of the motivating factors that led to the former’s divorce. The Daily Beast reported that Melinda Gates was present for a meeting between her husband and Epstein at the latter’s Upper East Side mansion several years before their divorce and Epstein’s death. Afterward, Melinda reportedly told friends that “she was furious at the relationship between the two men,” and that it haunts her.

Of their separation, Bill and Melinda Gates have only publicly said, “We no longer believe we can grow together as a couple in this next phase of our lives.”

The reason for Bill Gates’ hesitance to speak about Epstein is anybody’s guess. The relationship simultaneously jeopardized his philanthropic legacy, bruised his reputation with the general public, and may have cost him his marriage.

Read more about Bill Gates here.